It is a shame isn't it Mike. So lets fix it! I'm for any solution that does not involve the STINKING GOVERNMENT! Got lots of good Ideas. Want to hear them?

Jack,

One of my friends is a ER Nurse. She and her husband have sacrificed for many years to get her RN /NP so she could make a good living without the long difficult hours she had for many years as a LPN then a Junior RN.

She now makes very good money but she has paid a heavy price to earn that pay up till now. I don't resent what anyone makes if they have worked hard to attain it.

I do resent the elitists academic left wing morons who inherited Daddy's billions and want to tell me I'm not paying enough taxes or I'm evil since I worked myself to death for 40 years to get some security financially finally. Even more I resent them trying to influence those who have struggled that the reason they are poor is somehow my fault. When I give more to Charity and do more to help the less fortunate than Bill Clinton.

God blessed my years of hard work and now I am financially able to give back and I do.

Never resent what someone earns my friend Just ask God to give you creative Ideas  how you can do something that will leave you able to leave behind a legacy instead of regrets.  In this world today you don't need legs to become quite successful.

I met a man several years ago who is totally paralyzed he communicates with a  optically controlled computer.He has built  several successful enterprises and funds many wonderful charitable works because of using and developing his skills. I pray that everything you put your hands too diligently will become profitable and you will prosper greatly.And through your efforts many great works are advanced.

I cannot think of a greater gift to give someone than that.

Blessings my friend.

MA,

Free enterprise can fix almost anything if the STINKING GOVERNMENT will get the He** out of the way!

EVERYTHING that is wrong in health care today has it roost in STINKING GOVERNMENT interference over restriction and regulation, exesvie controlls and fees. 

Not all who support the GUBMENT option are elitists but the Butt holes in DC we elected ARE!

I know people of good conscience  disagree on this issue. None disagree it needs to be fixed. I just believe in the Constitution and the GUBMENT is opposed to it.  I want to see the GUBMENT get out of the way once and fore all and let the wonderful creativity of American ingenuity work unrestricted.  We will fix this thing with out bankrupting America in the process.
Remember when you were a kid and your parents told you that just because you wanted it doesn't mean you are going to get it?
The GUBMENT is acting like a spoiled child. We want our MTV!

I often told my kids if you can pay for it you can buy it.  DC cannot pay for ANYTHING! They have no money! They are taking yours and mine against our will and spending it.  That is robbery! I want them all arrested and thrown in jail!

Lets do this in a way that makes sense. Not in some half a$$ed reckless way.

2000 freaking pages? and you want to trust people who cannot write this in a few pages to oversee this thing?

PLEASE!

BTW, Health care insurance is NOT a RIGHT!!! When I read it in my Bible or in the Constitution then you can make that claim!

Just cause you want it does not mean I have to get it for you!

Last edited by Captain Kirk (2009-11-03 10:43:10)

VectorPDW wrote:

Congress, the UAW, government workers union have excluded themselves from this pile of crap bill why should it be forced on me?

AMEN Vector!  What is good for the Goose is good for the Gander.

Here's my answer, Doug.  From the United States Constitution:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America...

Article I, Section 8. [1] The Congress shall have the Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and [i]provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States ...

[18]To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States ...

Amendment IX  RIGHTS RETAINED BY THE PEOPLE.  The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage other rights retained by the people.

Contrary to this constant theme I see on the right where the Federal Government is treated as some interloper stealing our money and stopping all of us from prospering, the Federal Government is supposed to be a bulwark against the abuses of unregulated, laissez-faire capitalism and its consequences.  Thus Teddy Roosevelt proposed the first laws regulating the purity of our food and the curtailing of the more rapacious excesses of the Gilded Age. 

We've seen what happens when "free enterprise" is not regulated and the rights of the smaller and weaker among us left unprotected.  You think labor unions sprang up for people who were being fairly treated by their bosses?  Look at American history - the REAL history of this country and not the myth - and SEE how a few people began to gather all the wealth to themselves on the backs of those who brought them that wealth.  You rail against the government and praise free enterprise, but before the government stepped in unregulated free enterprise brought us child labor, excessive work hours, NO workers' compensation, NO retirement plans or health benefits, NO occupational health or safety, NO limits on the dozens of ways in which the ultra-wealthy could continue to exploit and benefit from their unabashed exploitation of others.  I remember my dad and uncle telling stories of what it was like growing up in a town completely owned by the local coal company, of how everything sold in the town was sold out of the company store, which fixed prices to whatever the market would bear.

So, we had populists and reformers like Teddy Roosevelt, and later FDR, and later then Truman and others.  The role of government is to secure the general welfare, and this means that it can step in to stop the greed from taking over and making life miserable for those who don't happen to have all the purse strings.  It's not unconstitutional to declare that all people have the right to a minimal level of health care.  That's just a recognition of reality.  It's part of living in a civilized society that no one should be allowed to sicken and die for lack of money.  That's what we're doing right now, you know.  We're letting people sicken and die because they don't have enough money to enjoy the benefits of our great advances in science and medicine which could bring them healing.  For those who want the care we tell them that they must impoverish themselves and their posterity to obtain it.  We render them destitute. 

Doug, you would not pass a sick or dying child on the street.  If you found someone unconscious by the curb you would consider it your mandate as a Christian to do something to help.  I have no doubt that you would do as the Good Samaritan did, that you would call an ambulance for that child and you would feel a responsibility to see to his welfare, to make sure that he got the care which would save his life.  You would do it because you are fundamentally decent and THAT's what your Bible tells you to do.  It is, isn't it?  What other purpose is there to the story of the Good Samaritan than that it tells us we are ALL responsible for others, even  unknown or despised others, in our society? 

How many times have you asserted that the United States was founded as a Christian nation?  I have differed with you on this, but let me ask you ... if we ARE indeed a Christian nation founded on the Judeo-Christian ethos, then how is it that so many of those who proclaim their Christianity so fervently and believe this about our nation so intrinsically are opposed to doing the Christian thing and making basic health care available for all?  How Christian can we be if our nation does not look out for the least among us?

Last edited by MarineAuntie (2009-11-03 12:05:45)

VectorPDW wrote:

http://blogs.indystar.com/varvelblog/11032009.jpg

That's ridiculous.  I'm a small business and the cost of my current health care coverage is killing me.  It costs me about 33% more than my office rent just for myself.  The House bill would provide me some protection from this.

Captain Kirk wrote:

It is a shame isn't it Mike. So lets fix it! I'm for any solution that does not involve the STINKING GOVERNMENT! Got lots of good Ideas. Want to hear them?

Doug so far have not seem as you so nicely stated " want to hear them"

Are you going to tell us that the HMO's, Healthcare Organizations are going to fix this ? They are a major part of the problem. What other non governement company is going to fix this ? Did your read the link above ?

People are being denied health care right now, today, here in NY and in your town everyday because they exceeded their expenses to cover their cancer treatment of all kinds, their child who was born early adn with medical problems, should we kill them becasue they can not get coverage.

How bout the couple who lost their jobs, lost their health care, can not afford to pay COBRA because is it 2000 a month [ example], now may loose their house because they are out of work without healthcare, needing to put some food on the table and they exhausted their savings?

So what is your solution ? What is everyione here who feels our government is out of line to attempt to fix htis problem, what are your solutions, instead of blasting the government, lets here them. You have the solution contact your representatives with your ideas. I am sure some may be good see what they say. Unfortunately they probably will not even read them.

Oh an on the so called 2000 pages, d**n yes that is a lot of pages, but that is politics and this is a major issue.

How many Veterans here are affected by these changes which may come ? probably none since most of us get our medical from the VA, or have Champus or tricare available to us at a small cost.

But guess what you have coverage your neighbor may not.

The above is just my thoughts

SSGMike.Ivy wrote:

VectorPDW wrote:

http://blogs.indystar.com/varvelblog/11032009.jpg

VectorPDW love your solution to this problem

Dont be snarky Mike.  Saying a bad solution is still a solution is like saying you would rather be poked in the eye with a pointy stick than be beaten with a hammer.

Mike you don't think that more words on paper makes it a better bill do you?
So what is the need for or what is hidden in those 2000 words?  Why do you trust these people? You trust what you don;t understand and neglect what is right before your eyes?

I certainly hope people wake up to the truth before we are all  begging for and eating dog food!

Did you ever read about the economic collapses around the world and how they came to be?

VectorPDW wrote:

MarineAuntie wrote:

VectorPDW wrote:

http://blogs.indystar.com/varvelblog/11032009.jpg

That's ridiculous.  I'm a small business and the cost of my current health care coverage is killing me.  It costs me about 33% more than my office rent just for myself.  The House bill would provide me some protection from this.

And how is that going to get any better when the cost gets passed on to you?  AND DONT SAY IT WONT.  People will be laid off, small businesses will close, those that survive will raise their prices to cover the increased taxes. 

Of course you probably believe Nancy Pelosi when she says it wont cost any extra.

Have you even bothered to look at the provisions regarding small businesses?  Here's a chart showing that over 96% of the current small businesses - including mine - would face NO surcharges. http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/111/hcssb.pdf

Small businesses have much to gain from the House proposal. Small businesses in particular will benefit from the insurance market reforms in the House proposal. Small businesses have small numbers of employees, and thus are at a disadvantage under the current insurance market rules that allow insurance companies to charge premiums based on employee medical history. The insurance market reforms in the House proposal will prohibit this practice.
•
In addition, a substantial number of small businesses would benefit from a new tax credit included in the bill. The House proposal does not require a small business with aggregate payroll that does not exceed $250,000 to make a contribution to fund the health care costs of low- and moderate-income working families if the small business chooses not to offer employee health insurance. Also, the House proposal provides a tax credit of up to 50 percent of the employer’s coverage for certain small businesses that choose to provide health coverage for their employees.

That sounds like me.  I've been charged extraordinarily high premiums for years due to my pre-existing conditions.  It's cost me many thousands of dollars just to have insurance and I've had to forgo many other things just to maintain it.

Here's a video from Christina Romer, member of the Council of Economic Advisers, who explains that small businesses currently pay over 18% more than larger businesses for health care coverage, putting them at an economic disadvantage.  http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/21

The present legislation says that if the cost of coverage costs more than 11% of the income of a self-employed individual or small business then the business gets a subsidy to cover the difference, and also gets a 50% tax deduction.  My coverage and uninsured medical expenses have been costing me well over 11% of my income. 

I hear and see a lot of "sky is falling" rhetoric from the right about this, but those same people haven't noticed that health care costs NOW are killing small businesses and ruining the finances of the self-employed.  I've known many colleagues who gave up practicing law and joined the government or even left the law for other fields just because of insurance.  I had a colleague a few years ago who gave up his law practice to become a sales guy at Home Depot just so he could get the insurance for his cancer-stricken wife.

Captain Kirk wrote:

Mike you don't think that more words on paper makes it a better bill do you?
So what is the need for or what is hidden in those 2000 words?  Why do you trust these people? You trust what you don;t understand and neglect what is right before your eyes?

I certainly hope people wake up to the truth before we are all  begging for and eating dog food!

Did you ever read about the economic collapses around the world and how they came to be?

1 page, 50 pages, 1 million pages who the heck knows how many pages it takes to right a Theseus on healthcre. I don't.

No I never said I trusted anyone especially a politican or make it so that is adds to my blood pressure everday.

Our goernment for the most part has been correct from day one, well maybe day 2 and our choice as voting Americans is to vote people out and people in, then vote people out and people in. It's called a cycle, so we vote people in and vote people out. And guess what most things stay the same..corruption and big business control our country and that will never change.

Possibly read it years ago and with my memory problem don't remember most of it. Surely your more on top of that then I am and can quote some infor here

I always makes my jaw drop when I listen to individuals who believe that they are entitled to another’s private property through the force of government because they believe have a need greater than the person who owns the private property. 

These same individuals keep mandating government policy which in turn makes the needed reasonable healthcare more expensive then introducing the next round of mandates increasing health care again.  The never-ending vicious cycle.

When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it.  - Frederic Bastiat